In several of the groups that read, I often see messages from men who have desire to be submissive to their partners - generally a wife of some years. Like many who first discover a way to vent on the internet, their questions usually take the form of "How can I get my partner to..." I sympathize, of course, because I've been there, done that, and bought the postcards from the edge. For many of us, this is not a good place to be, emotionally speaking; I still remember all too well the frustration and heartache, the actual pain from having to keep years of fantasies and images and scenes locked up inside my head, not being able to share these with my wife, not to even have the opportunity to talk about them let alone act anything out.
When I read these messages on the various web forums, I often see other men in like circumstances trying to give helpful and supportive responses. They frequently suggest that the writer should imagine that his partner is domming him, and to keep that feeling in mind as he performs various "submissive" acts: Do the laundry, wash the dishes, clean the bathroom, get up early and make her coffee, give foot rubs and back massages without pressuring her for sex, and other similar acts of consideration are suggested. The underlying reasoning is that these are acts that a partner would enjoy anyway, and if one performs them with the mindset of being submissive, then they can fulfill their own fantasies and hopefully slowly bring their partners around to a dommish way of thinking. I've seen this humorously described as "stealth submission." I've tried this, myself, and while we had a cleaner house I never realized that sense of fulfillment. I now understand why:
I was doing pleasurable acts while fantasizing. In another context that would be called "masturbation."
Before any one flames me, I am not saying that there is something wrong with masturbating. I enjoy it; sometimes I've done it as a "quickie" way to take the sexual edge off, sometimes I've had long involved sessions, and sometimes I've done it to help fall asleep. That's not the point I'm trying to make. But sometimes what I want is not an orgasm; sometimes I want interaction. I want to be acknowledged.
I want a partner. I want a relationship.
And that's what was lacking for me when I've tried stealth submissiveness - I want some acknowledgement that my partner - my beautiful wife - knows and understands what I'm doing and why I'm doing it, I want her to actively participate, to give some thought to why I'm doing this, and - perhaps more importantly - can take some pleasure herself in knowing and understanding.
I want, I want, I want. Doesn't sound very "submissive", does it?
I continue to get up earlier than my wife to make the coffee. I continue to clean the bathroom and load the dishwasher and scrub the pans after I cook dinner. I rub her feet or her back or her neck, and make sure all the electronic devices are operating correctly - just as I did from the beginning of our relationship. But it's no longer an expression of submission for me; rather, it's an expression of consideration, a demonstration that she can count on me to be there for her.
In another context, I guess that this would be called "caring." We're still working on the "relationship" part.
More foxing than f…ing
-
Some of you know that I have been posting captioned pictures over on Denial
Permanente , my as yet unbanned Tumblr account. A recent caption made me
think ...
9 months ago
Are you aware of any reliable seeming reports of it working? While it sounds reasonable the men who write about it seem to be stuck in frustration.
ReplyDeleteRichard, I've been reading the various web forums for years, so I've run across a pretty decent sampling. Are there some couples for whom this has worked? Yes - to varying degrees. I've read a few men who report that their wives (and note that it's almost always a marital relationship) begin to enjoy the attention, and eventually learn to become more demanding, if not more dominant. I guess some men find some compromise which works for them. But note that if a man really is looking for a dominant wife, and the wife wants nothing to do with that icky pervy stuff, then there are going to be issues.
ReplyDeleteInterestingly, some women freak over this, and others dont' give much thought. And doesnt' anyone ever consider that some of the wives themselves might be "stealth subbing"? I wonder what would happen in that case?
It is good to read that it sometimes actually work.
ReplyDeleteI don't know about in a stealth context but sometimes one partner's admission of submissive desires leads to a similar confession from their other half. Result: divorce. (I'm sure there must be some exceptions, they are probably too busy having fun to write about it.)
Tom wrote:
ReplyDelete"I've tried this, myself, and while we had a cleaner house I never realized that sense of fulfilment. I now understand why:
I was doing pleasurable acts while fantasizing. In another context that would be called "masturbation.""
I assume what you are trying to say here is that doing submissive acts in the form of household chores didn't work for you because when you fantasised about doing them you were masturbating and therefore fulfilling the sexual urge while fantasising.
While I understand this; it didn't work for you mainly for three reasons:
1. You didn't put yourself into the slave mindset while doing them.
2. Your wife was not actively 'playing' a dominating role. The sexual and power dynamic experience has to be sensed in the communication between the two of you while you are doing the chores.
3. Especially in your case, she expects you to do them anyway as you've usually done, so things are experienced not so differently from when you do them normally and won't feel sexual.
I also think it depends on how strongly you desire to be a slave/submissive to your wife and how much you want to let go of being in control in all the aspects of your relationship. You see, I suspect that in many parts of your everyday life in your relationship, you are in equal control and have been so for many years. Behavioural habits that you do by second nature are very difficult to change.
You do your chores as an act of consideration and caring which of course they should be, but if you want it to be an act of submission, then the experience has to be made to feel more sexual, meaning your wife has to play an active dominating role.
It doesn't have to be every time you do the chores but you could turn some of them into deliberate mild D/s 'scenes'. On those occasions I would guess that it will work better for you. You could choose a chore that you don’t normally do out of habit often and is more of a gift to the recipient.
As an act of love in the form of caring and consideration, you have given something to your wife especially if it directly benefits her, so then, it might not be so unreasonable if your wife returned with an act of love by playing out a dominating role for you while you do the chore. In the process, you never know, she might develop a ‘kink’ for doing it more often as she has done with the chastity element. To get the role play balance just right, however, does require lots of practice and patience.
Love given, loved returned - this applies as much to D/s as it does to any other mode.
It’s easy to forget in D/s that love still has to go actively both ways… so a submissive’s cry of I want, I want, I want… sometimes is not always such an unreasonable or selfish cry because at the heart of this is a cry for attention to be loved in a manner that satisfies the submissive.
Tom, I know you will already be aware of these concepts, but I just fancied to throw in my penny’s worth. Hope it helps you and other readers.
I assume what you are trying to say here is that doing submissive acts in the form of household chores didn't work for you because when you fantasised about doing them you were masturbating and therefore fulfilling the sexual urge while fantasising.
ReplyDeleteNo, I was trying to make a point in an overly subtle way: "Stealth" submission implies that your partner has no idea that you are submitting to them. You can adopt a mindset and pretend that she has ordered you to clean the bathroom - and certainly take some pleasure in following the non-existent order - but the entire dynamic is lopsided. Taking pleasure in following a pretend order is analogous to masturbating; there's no relationship involved.
While you are mistaken on point 1, your next two are spot on: I can masturbate at any time. What I want, though, is to have a relationship in which my wife takes as much (or almost as much) enjoyment as I do from the situation.
You do your chores as an act of consideration and caring which of course they should be, but if you want it to be an act of submission, then the experience has to be made to feel more sexual, meaning your wife has to play an active dominating role.
Again, you've understood my position exactly. I gave up having imaginary friends when I was four; what I want now is a partner.
We may get there. Some days I have doubts, other days I'm hopeful. This year we've discovered that our biggest obstacle is that my wife has some seirous issues with intimacy, and we're working to overcome that so we can communicate about sexuality and other relationship matters on a more regular and productive basis.